overtaking on the inside lane in the u k

[jolliffee]

Hello Anqua.
The key point in your quote is: “traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right; In these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right”

So if you stay in your left lane maintain your speed you are not breaking the law, even though the traffic to your right is going slower or may be stopped (happens all day long on the M25 and other heavly congested A roads): When you come to the slower vehicle indicate pull out overtake pull back into the LH lane; ONE NEEDS TO BE ALERT!

Undertaking is when someone moves from the RH lane to the LH lane goes past people in the RH lane and pulls back into the RH lane, per your quote: "Do not weave in and out of lanes to overtake"

Hope this helped a little.[msnsmile2]

[Angua]

Hi, Dave.

Thanks for the clarification but I was referring specifically to your comment that ...

"It is the two lane motorways and Duel carriageways that cause me the most grief; time and again there is a really slow vehicle on the inside, some one pulls out to overtake but does not accelerate, and often does not pull back in so we have this stupid line of cars in the outside lane waiting to get past the slow vehicle on the outside who over took the slow vehicle on the inside 10 miles back. Drive the A1 in Yorkshire & the M11 from or to Cambridge and you’ll know what I mean. This is where the Q system is not used and we should use it more..."

I just don't understand how you can use the "Q system" to get past that slow moving vehicle in the right hand lane.

The Highway Code refers to congested traffic conditions on the motorway and keeping up with traffic in [u]your</u> lane. Imagine road-works (not too hard if you drive anywhere on our roads[}]), all lanes are virtually stationary or slow-moving. The vehicles in the right-hand lane move ahead a little then slow/stop while the traffic in the left-hand moves ahead a little then slows/stops. If you are in that left-hand lane which starts moving ahead while the right hand lane is slower or stationary, then "you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right."

However, the Code is very specific that ..."[u]Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake.</u>" so you must not move into a left-hand lane to undertake, whether the driver considers it weaving or not and whether the driver intends to stay in the left-hand lane or not and you must not pass on the left unless it is in congested traffic in all lanes.

Obviously, if everyone followed the Code and did as it instructs..."Return to the left-hand lane once you have overtaken all the vehicles or if you are delaying traffic behind you." there would be fewer problems on the motorways/dual carriageways. However, if you are overtaking traffic in the right-hand lane and come across a slower moving vehicle in your lane then, according the The Highway Code, you have no choice but to queue up behind them, you can not change lanes to pass on the left, even if the left-hand lane is clear for miles and even if it is the law that you keep to the left! ...And if you are in the left-hand lane with a clear road ahead of you and come up to a slower moving car in the right-hand lane with a clear road ahead of him, you still can't pass on the left. It's not congested traffic, it's just someone daydreaming!

It's strange that the Police have told you one thing and the Highway Code says another. Perhaps, if there is a Traffic Police Officer who is a Forum member, we could get some specific laws and perhaps give their name or quote those laws if we try to pass, on the left, that slow-moving right-hand car.....and get stopped by their colleagues.

Personally I don't think I'd risk it, I don't think "but the Forum told me I could do it" would be a valid defence. [msnwink] I'd rather wait until they pass a law that you may pass on the left in all circumstances as long as the manoeuvre is performed safely and with consideration to other drivers.[msnsmile2]

[Robert5988]

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Perhaps, if there is a Traffic Police Officer who is a Forum member, we could get some specific laws and perhaps give their name or quote those laws if we try to pass, on the left, that slow-moving right-hand car.....and get stopped by their colleagues.
[/quote]

Angua,
This has been discussed many times on a motoring forum I visit - to which several police officers contribute.

Your interpretation is absolutely correct. Much as the problem is the motorists who refuse to move over, it is not legale to 'undertake' them under conditions where traffic is flowing freely.
i.e even where the car is driving at, say, 50mph in the outside lane of a motorway. The concensus of opinion is that undertaking would create more problems than it would solve.

[jolliffee]

Hi Angua, I think we may be having a violent agreement?


Actually I don’t think I was advocating undertaking but a better use of the roads that already exist; maybe a slight back-pedal on my part but my default positioning for traffic jamming is to go down the outside. I will only filter on the inside when it offers a clear advantage to forward progress without an excessive compromise to my safety.

Lane hogging and undertaking:
These are pet hates of mine; I include the two together, because the former often causes the latter. The lane hoggers are most commonly seen on the motorways and dual carriageways, and basically consist of two types. First, there's the people who hog the outside lane, not moving over into a gap to allow the (large and growing) queue of traffic behind to pass, usually because they want to overtake the car 400 yards ahead that they're catching up with at the rate of about 50 yards a minute. This is not popular with most drivers, particularly impatient ones, who then think this gives them the right to change lanes and undertake the offending lane hogger. This in itself, of course, defeats the object somewhat, since it actually prevents the lane hogger from moving over, because people are undertaking!
Second, there's the type who hog the middle lane. Do they have some phobia about the left lane? Who knows. Either way, this causes problems for people travelling down the centre lane that are being overtaken themselves, since they are unable to move right to overtake the lane hogger, and must slow down. I often see people undertaking these lane hoggers to make some kind of point, but again, that just prevents them moving over. Another popular, though very dangerous,' is to overtake them and then swerve across their path into the left lane, but this isn't really sensible either, especially when you catch up with that slow moving lorry a few hundred yards ahead, and have to pull back out, thus looking very silly.

Well, that's a great deal of ranting done and off my chest. I think there is definitely a need to raise the quality of driving on the roads, and whilst the government seems keen on raising the difficulty of the driving test to make it harder to get on the road in the first place, this does seem to be missing the point because there are far too many dangerous drivers that are already on the roads. Still, at the moment, there is no real incentive for people to join organisations such as the IAM - most insurance companies seem to ignore it, and there are only a few perks for being a member - to increase driving standards through further training/education, nor is there sufficient covert enforcement to catch the dangerous drivers that plague the roads. What enforcement there is seems to be damage limitation, rather than damage prevention.
Since I have now completed a circular post,I think I'm done on this subject.
[msnscared]

[Angua]

That's cool, Dave. I wasn't trying to have a pop at you, honest. I agree with your views entirely, having driven on a few motorways myself(although I don't undertake in any circumstance (apart from traffic congestion), just get annoyed[}]).

I'm quite sad actually, I thoroughly enjoy driving..... even on Motorways (I've already explained on other threads that I'm quite mad!) and have quite a few years of driving experience under my belt so do know my way around the rules and regs, both legal and just plain courtesy. I'm also get very animated on the topic even though I'm only a woman so apologies for my vigour.

I was only trying to clarify the position for other readers of this thread as your first post gave the impression that the Police had told you that it was legal to undertake in that kind of situation, which I knew was not in accordance with the Highway Code. Also, Robert complimented you on your excellant post which confused me somewhat since Robert is very much anti-undertaking. With your Defensive Driving and Advanced Driver qualifications and Robert's clear knowledge of driving statistics lending authority, it made it seem that undertaking in those circumstances was quite legal which (unfortunately!) it is not.

Isn't it funny that this is such an emotive subject? I don't know anyone who sits on the fence with this topic and it certainly makes for an interesting discussion, eh?. [msnsmile2] I'm signing off this one now too, to give some other poor so-and-so a chance!![msnwink]

[fiona]

Well this has been very entertaining reading chaps. I must say though, living as we do between the M4, M40, M3 and M25 motorways (too much excitement in one lifetime[msnwink]) you would think that undertaking was already the law, in fact I thought it had been passed after recent trips.

I find if I am trawling along at 70 on the inside lane, it is often v difficult to get out into the middle lane to overtake, and with so many people tailgating it is impossible to move with ease from one lane to another.

It seems to me that people drive with alot less courtesy than they used to, and the young women are now as rude and aggressive as the young men (mass generalisation here, but you get the idea).

Who is it who will let you out? Lorry drivers bless their cotton socks[msnsmile2].

[linda.s]

I think driving has got more agressive naturally..... With the additional vehicles on the road, more congestion etc, it's almost compulsory to jump into a gap to overtake. There is little choice unless you want to stay in the inside lane for the whole journey. I not only get frustrated with lane hoggers and undertakers, but those who jump into the gap I am trying to leave in front of me. Makes me a tailgater! I have often had a car indicate to overtake, and pull over into my lane without my consent, and with maybe only a couple of metres space between me and their bumper! Now I'm tailgating, even though I was trying to leave a gap! So, I try to drop back a bit, and someone else leaps in! I spend many hours travelling the M25, M1, M6, M4, M40 etc etc and the experience is becoming more nerveracking every time. And I enjoy driving! My car has done nearly 40k in the last 10 months, most on M roads. In my opinion, we need more lanes!

[Robert5988]

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:since Robert is very much anti-undertaking. [/quote]

One final word from me in response!

Just about everyone who advocates undertaking bases their argument on the middle lane hoggers etc etc. They clearly have a valid gripe with these morons and, albeit illegal, if they undertake I see it as no big deal.

My objection to legalising undertaking – which was the original question – is that it gives licence to those who already swop to an inside lane undertake and force their way into a queue of cars awaiting their turn to overtake vehicles who are travelling at a slower rate – not lane hoggers